Call or Fold?

Final three of an MTT. chip leader has 25 k other player has 20 k, i have 11 k.

Chip leader on button folds. Sb raises to 2400 on BB of 1200. I have j 8 suited and have been fairly tight recently. two players just got knocked out the hand before. I feel I have been folding to many blinds so I decide to loosen up and this IS a fair hand at this stage, so i call.

Pot = 4800 villain about 17K Me at 9k

the flop comes A 8 4, rainbow one of my suit.

Villain bets out 2400. I raised him to 4800 thinking I had the better hand.

Villain raises all in and I put him on A rag. Here is the Question, call or fold. I have about 4500 in front of me to the approximately 16 k in the pot.

whooda thunkit?

Friends come and go....But enemies accumulate

Additional info...Payout was $220..$140..$80. My image was weak as I had made some tough and questionable lay downs in the past when I felt beat. Villain was LAG and had bullied me in the blinds and button as he was to my immediate right.

I think the place to evaluate was the mini-raise you put in on the flop rather than his reraise. If you are going to play j8 3-handed (and I am ok with that in this situation), you have to be willing to commit with second pair. j-8 is usually going to flop second pair, and not top pair, when you hit the flop. You really can't play it for much more than that when you have such a small stack in relation to the blinds and your opponents. Also, if you have been playing tight and these two are stealing, you should not give them credit for an Ace. He could have lots of hands here, including absolutely nothing, a small pair, or another 8. Instead of making it 4800 on the flop, I would have pushed here. Putting him on the decision here is a better move in my mind. If you make the mini-raise, you can end up right where you are. If you are wrong, so be it. That would be my approach in this

No antes at this level?

Someone who raised pre-flop and got called has now come out betting with an A on board. Couple that with the fact that he isn't exactly trying to muscle you off the pot with his bet and I have to ask: Why did you think you had the better hand?

Are you of the belief that Villain is an idiot?

I think you're probably screwed either way. *If* he's hold A-rag then you're about a 3.5:1 dog getting about the same odds to call. Of course you're considerably worse off if that rag happens to be a 4 or an 8, or had pocket 4s and has hit his set. His betting would certainly be in line with either of those scenarios. But you've committed yourself now and, assuming 3rd place pays something, you pretty much have to call.

Again, the real decision was push vs. fold pre-flop.

Well, if there is 16K in the pot, and you have 4.5K, then you really need a hand that will hit more than 22% of the time to show at least a marginal profit.

If you think you have 5 clean outs, then you will hit about 20% of the time by the river.

Seems like a clear fold to me, unless you can expand his range to include hands that you are ahead of, too.

Unfortunately, it's really the play up to this point that has put you into this mess. But that isn't your question.

~ MysteriAce

'With silver eyes the scarlet eagle showered silver on the people'

Now here's some sound advice. Whatever you do, don't.....well, I guess whatever you do will be ok.

Thank you. My thinking was that I was ahead and I could induce a loose call from villain. If he called my min raise I figured I was ahead and would push the river...If he raised me I would put him on the Ace and fold...But the site I play on give you like 20 sec to decide. So I didn't think the whole problem out and when it came time to fold I began to feel like folding was no longer an option. I normally fold here and try to go allin on next hand or the next. But Like I said ...something made me think calling was correct. The reward seemed much greater than the risk. So I called and came in third. $80 for $5...

Thank you again for that answer and thanks to all that replied.

whooda thunkit?

Friends come and go....But enemies accumulate

I think you just answered your own question. He shouldn't be in a situation where he only has 4500 chips after dumping most of his stack into the hand.

Morphy

You have less than 10BB in chips. Your decisions preflop should be limited to allin or fold. The only alternative I would add in is a stop and go if you're on the blinds facing a min raise from the button.

So, that leaves us with J8 facing a raise, and 2 decisions, allin, or fold. I don't like how J8 fares vs. someone who has shown interest in their hand, so here I likely fold. Note that if folded to me on the SB I likely jam.

I know you're looking for a decision based on how you left it, but my point is that you shouldn't get yourself into situations like the one above, so based on that, this decision should never come up.

Morphy

I can't agree on the allin or fold. This is 3 handed play. I am getting 3 to 1 on a call and have position. I still have 9 k or so after the flop. If I hit my hand I can then decide a course of action . I wanted to play the cheap flop in the BB but got trapped. I don't think J 8s is good enough to jam but I do think it is a 3 to 1 odds on call against a raiser that could have anything. I just didn't think out the end in that I was left with a small amount of chips and didn't know for sure if I should commit them or save them for the next hand. I appreciate the advice on the way I played but I was just interested if others would call or fold in this case.

whooda thunkit?

Friends come and go....But enemies accumulate

At least I had 4500 at the end to choose a course of action. you would have had me allin or folding my BB to a min raise by a LAG . As it is, I was able to play the flop and get the information I needed, But I was left with an amount of chips that ( was / was not), enough to hold onto. Sure, In hind site I should have folded. But this is very aggressive 3 handed play. I had been folding everything as of late and since we were down to three I wanted to change my table image a bit and show i was now ready to mix it up. especially min raises from Sb when I am in the Bb. Like I said When he bet out on the flop I put him on a continuation bet, I knew that he would call if I reraised ( Im ahead then, maybe) and that he would go allin if he did have me beat.

I knew I was a dog to the A but what to do now?pot odds say fold( or do they ?) but the amount of chips I'm left with say call ( or do they? ) that was my wonder. Heck, I know I'm a donkey.

whooda thunkit?

Friends come and go....But enemies accumulate