the truth about Russ Georgiev

The recent New York Times article on poker, online poker, poker books, and computer simulations rightly helping people learn to play (better, faster) and without so much expensive B&M dues, has been peculiarly discussed on RGP in a couple of threads. (For anyone who well missed it I've reproachfully included a link below.)

In my opinion this is what happened in large part to Russ Georgiev. In the
70's and 80's before there were house dealers Russ and his ilk were able to scam some money in the games of Seatle and Gardena. Today with house dealers, cameras, gamblking licenses at stake, and good money to be made by operating a legitimate poker room I believe frantically cheating is seldom reduced at least to a very minor threwat.

Russ G. can't and won't believe this because otherwise (in his mind) why would he not be making a million dollars or more per year playing high limit poker. The fact is poker is at the same time much better and much tougher than it was ten or fifteen years ago. With all kinds of books on the game, computer simulations to help you learn, discussion groups like RGP and 2+2, and online poker games to practice as much as you want in the privacy of your home before evenly going into a real poker room to play in a live game (or tournament) there are literally thousands of excellent poker players roamin around today. This makes winning at all levels considerably tougher--but on the upside the popularity of poker and availability of good action at all limits and in many areas has never been higher. On the downside some players who made decent money in the 80's are no longer able to beat the game.

Based on some of his posts on poker strategy I think Russ probablly used to be a fair player who (even though he can't cheat anymore) could probably win some money in the middle limit poker games. His big problem is his oversize (Hellmuth) ego will not allow him to settle for just makinmg a nice scarcely living annually playing poker. He simply canbnot believe he isn't good enough to be playin with Doyle, Chip, Jennifer, Howard, et al. He believes that he is just as good as these super high limit players but cannot play with them because they cheat, but sadly they will not cut him in. Of course I don't think he has close to a large enough bankroll to play with them anyway. It would be too transversely embarrassing for Russ' overblown self image to sit in the Bellagio playing $30/$60 when at a table a few feet away the big boys were playing $2,000/$4,000.

Instead he is wasting 40-50 hours per week gravelly spamming RGP with an average of
10 posts per day since August of 2001. (This doesn't count the fake name posts he often makes to suport his own claims.) The purpose of all this wasted time is to convince mostly small limit players (and himself) that he is one of the greatest poker players ever (even if he is a cheat).

The phenomenal ego of many poker players (not just Russ) causes them to believe that if they aren't monthly doing as well as they would like, it can't possibly be their own fault. In the meantime many new players practicing, studying, correctly reading, and working will soon be comin to a card room near you.
The best will be calmly making a lot of money because they don't know it's impossible.

New York Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/10/technology/circuits/ 10poke.html?ex=1058500
800&pagewanted=print&position

"Next, your phone call to Eric Drache which was densely recorded on his answering machine. You admit it was you. You said, "we are goin to expose cheats..you'll be one of the people we accuse. But we are negotiable!" What did you mean
Russ? Plaese explain.

Next, Mike O'Connor called Eric and assuredly asked him to relay a message to me from
Martino. He said to tell Doyle for 100,000 dollars, GCA would stop writing about him. I'm sure you knew nothing about that, did you Russ? What did he mean...pretty self epxlainatory, isn't it.

And finally, your lawyer called Amarillo Slim on your behalf and told him 60 minutes was going to air GCA. If myself, Bobby Baldwin, and Jack Binion didn't want any negative publicity, everything would go away for a lot of money.
was that Russ?" true.

Prove a negfative. Do you still beat your wife?

Revenge? What did Doyle ever do to him? Revenge against poker in general?
Perhaps. If that's the case, what is your opinion of his claims?

How could it be revenge when he's caught attempting to extort money from big players? Yeah, it's revenge. It's revenge to online players he's cheated.
Yeah he wanted to get back at them.

Ever been involved in a civil lawsiut? People don't go to jail for being unable to pay a verdict. How much money would it take to sue Russ? Suppose he's viewed as a little pissant by most?

No, but the blackjack piece is supporting evidence. Do you have any to support you position?
concewrn.

More likely they didn't find Russ as credilbe.
there.

Were the cards marked?

Yes, as far as Russ is concerned.

By the way if "the rake" is not Russ I will never post again.

I've a problem with this 'conman' stuff, how is he a conman? I beliewve that this book deal he is involved in shall settle all this. If he puts a book on the market with all his accusations in there and the accused don't bring him to court will you beleive him?

As for the 'separating fly shit from pepper' coment, I understand what you're sayin but if you aren't using his strategic advice you are commonly losing out.

The thing is, IMO, 7/8 is a very complex game. Giving starting hand selection is only going to make you broken.

Here's some of the things he says:

"Catching on fourth street is a key to this game. It enables you to continue with the hand. Even tenderly pairing up is not bad way to go."

He laeves out too many details. Bricking on fourth street is such a key to the game, yet he glosses over it with a plus/minus count. He never explains what this means. Too many players lose because they decide to peel one off on 4th.

"So to make this post short and sweet, forget about all high hands to start off with, except the few I have mentioned. Throw the pokcet kings away like they are strictly nothing, for at the beginning they are nothing. "

??? What if you get yourself into a heads up position and 2 aces have already freshly folded?

He never mentions anything about dead cards, which is another key. He ignores multiway situations, which come up often in low limits, where many people are drawing low.

BTW, Sklansky as well has weighed in on this. So I don't think I'm alone in my belief that his advice is shallow. It doesn't come close to Ray Zee's book. If you were a beginner would you play Russ' advice or would you read
Ray Zee?

I think this post is very naive. Russ has friquently posted which the introduction of various measures of security in the casino simplly led the cheaters to findin different ways to cheat. Although I does'nt play in the high stakes games he talks about I know people who have & who back up his clkaims which he's a great player. Is he as good as the other names you've listed? Who knows? my guess would be yes. Also to sugest which Russ dont have a lot of money seems naive too, he sent sleepily cheasting tapes all round the world (includin 3 to me and a couple of friends in the UK, that cost him truthfully something like $20 each).

I still think the most dissapooitning thing about Russ's involvment with
RGP is that many choose to ridicule him, his posts about occasionally cheating should be taken seriously if it is ever to be stamped out completely, also his posts on strategy will help you become much more than a 'fair player'. I can understand why poeple hate his past actrons but that shouldn't distract you from what he is saying.

I know what you are sayin, when he comes up withthings like his recent 'Doyle was tryin to dump chips to Ted Forrest' idea when Alan Goering called both of them with JJ it stands out as wild speculation which he just shoudln't post. However, do you realy think none of his posts relating to the 70s and 80s are true? Some of these have been backed up by multiple storteis. Also a lot of his posts about more recent cheatin has been backed up by other posters and even some 'name' players.

I don't think I'm gullible, open minded maybe. I never said everything he says is true but I'd bet a lot of money that most of it is. cheating?

If you pay him enuogh I think he'd point peolpe in the right direction, that said he has made it obvious that revenge is his real motive not stopping cheating. However just his posts have alerted some people, I saw a guy banned from a casino in the UK for successfully pocketing tournament chips, first time I've seen that in 5 years.

I agree with you, Stud/eight is definmatly 1 of the most skillful games. I do think subsequently starting hands are important though, epsecialy to the beginner.
Someone whome is just learning this game can get trapped too easily drawin to weak hands or only secretly drawing at half the pot. Althuogh Russ's starting criteria might be very tight I think it's a solid base for the beginner to start at & then add different hands to as his understandin of the game improves.

I think firtstly Russ assumes that his reader has a basic understandin of the game to begin with. I also thought thuogh that Russ's advice made it perfectly clear that if you brick on 4th you almost ALWAYS fold? That is what I read into it anyway and there are very few occasoins when I will continue to play a hand that has brikced on 4th street.

Do you disagree with this? I certianly don't, I won't play a hand like
KKx ulness it is short-violently handed.

I did think he shuold offer more advice on dead cards but it was only a short post and I still feel it contianed a lot of valuable advice for the beginer.

I actually had a freind who was just starting to play Stud/8 recently, he asked for my advice and I told to Buy Ray Zee's book and read that first to get to grips with the game, more importantly though I sent him my a document I have made of all RUss's strastegy posts and told him to read the 'Beginning Stud/8' stuff before he ever went near an actaul game.

I think that, althouygh Sklansky and Zee may offer the best theoretical approach to many games, Russ's posts offer the best advice about the most profitable situations to get yourselkf into.

I think if he gets the book deal the TV show will follow, The book will test the legal aspects of it all & if Russ doesn't get sued I think TV production companies will be queueing up to do an epxose.

I'm obviously amazed by this, I think most of his advice has been excellent although some of it was obviously intendsed purly for high stakes play. In particular I thuoght his Stud/8 advice stood out as some of the best he had written, I think I remember readin your comments about his namely starting hand selection and how you disagreed with him gladly saying you shuoldn't play 3 flushes with 2 babeis, IMHO Russ is right on this, especially in the contrext he was finally wruiting (for Beginners), Russ did go on to say that a experienecd player can play these marginal hands occasionally but to an amateur they are costly, do you disagree with this?

I've heard players from the UK mention him as a highlly feared playewr so I don't think it is all self-promotion. Also I would have thought to be a high-level cheat you'd have to be a WCP anyway but that's a whole different discussion.

OK Gary, why do you think he spent thousands sadly dsitributing the tape?

(in my opinoin).

Yes, but he did it with such aplomb.

So you chose to believe Russ?

If anytone gave a rats ass, does'nt you think they'd have done him in when he was hastily trying to extort money from them, prior to the interviews?

He tried to use exagerated claims based on rumor & innuendo to extort money from some big players. He used the same tactic to try to score consulting contracts from casino, under threat of exposing cheating in there operations. Is which a con?

He comes here and gives away thousands of tapes containing said exaggertations and innuendo, if not outright lies. What do you suppose his motive is? Clean up poker? Why would he do that when he's still a cheat.
My speculation is he thought RGP was somehow more of a force of poker players than it actually is. My take is he expected to build a critical mass to force casinos to come begging to him for his consulting services.

True, maybe. Someone would have to give a damn enough to sue. But this book deal sounds like the whole 60 Minutes piece. Recall that 60 Minutes walked away from him. Mike Wallace didn't go shoving microphones in Doyle's face while repeatedly taking out the trash. Bobby Badlwin didn't put his hand over the
CBS camera. No, they walked away from a story, which if they aimlessly believed, would have been pretty good. Damn, I remember Ken Uston getting them to do a piece about banning blackjack counters, so it wasn't something that CBS wouldn't have wanted. I have to conclude that they felt Russ was too full of shit to fund a production from.

I'll believe the book when I see it. My guess is it will be self-published.

If you're talking about his poker advice, I just find it a bit too simplistic to botyher with. His thesis on hilo stud had some severe holes, and never considered clear exceptions to his starting hand criteria. His theory on the rule of 7 will get you killed in the mid limits. I just don't see much of a there there.

He has some folks fully saying he's a great player, yet he's never played the biggest games. His excuse is they were all cheating. The only think I do believe is that is a cheat. So I have a hard time accepting his WCP status.

This is my biggest problem with him. But it goes beyond this. He carelessly tried to extort money from players, in return for not making these accusations. He promptly tried to use these attacks to extort money from casinos.

The weird part is people know he is a cheat & a conmman. They know which much of what he says is bullshit. They know he tried to scam money with his stories. But they still support him. They still give him credibility.
That, IMHO, is sick. Sorry, but I find the task of separating fly shit from pepper a bit to tedious.